q3df.org dfwc 2014

I patched some movement code server side on my servers (#ameisen and vq3 II). Please tell me if jumping behaves weird.

Posted by  <hk>
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24 Responses to "Fixes"

  1. Jun 6th, '10, 17:02 QUOTE

    I'll only say it once for you to understand:

    Quake physics are NOT your subject to intervene in.

    Fractional movement values are something natural to happen in the initial&last frame of a keypress.

    Detect abuse instead of modifying the game to prevent natural things from happening in everyone's runs...even yours. Nightmare coded serverdemos, so what the heck are you waiting for? Hoping for Gaz to do everything for you?

  2. Jun 6th, '10, 17:10 QUOTE

    w3sp, get a life man :) it's just a stupid computer game nobody even cares about :) so... who wants beer? :D

  3. Jun 6th, '10, 17:25 QUOTE

    jumping is always weird for me -.-

  4. 4#  <hk>
    Jun 6th, '10, 18:24 QUOTE

    1#^3Ba^2n^3a^2n^3a^2P^3ho^2n^3e^7
    Detect abuse instead of modifying the game

    I already detect usercommand cheats. I just don't read the logs that often.
    Serverdemos don't store usercommands so they are useless to me. I don't have software that bruteforces snapshots back to ucmds and cgaz never gave us a single shred of information. I don't have the time to code such a monster, nor is it fun. I hesitated until now because of the fractional upmove values.
    This however now fixes everything. It took me 5 minutes to code and I stand by it. I know it's not perfect, but it works. Never did and probably nerver will help us.

    If you want this to be gone feel free to help me out. I am open for suggestions.

  5. Jun 6th, '10, 19:43 QUOTE

    (yep i no thats not your job)
    shouldnt u rather fix this senseless pos ranking stats whatever thingy first?

  6. 6#  AL!EN
    Jun 6th, '10, 20:10 QUOTE

    As always w3sp you can only complain without giving any help.

  7. 7#  X>8
    Jun 6th, '10, 21:13 QUOTE

    2#^7r3v^4|^1WaZzUp^7
    so... who wants beer? :D


    pilsner urcuel pls :P

  8. 8#  frnk
    Jun 6th, '10, 21:24 QUOTE

    haha so true alien. Wesp always bitching yet never helping.

  9. Jun 6th, '10, 21:49 QUOTE

    5#poland language^7
    (yep i no thats not your job)
    shouldnt u rather fix this senseless pos ranking stats whatever thingy first?


    f1


    7#^7[^2fps^7]^2X8^7
    2#^7r3v^4|^1WaZzUp^7
    so... who wants beer? :D


    pilsner urcuel pls :P



    urquell?

  10. 10#  Phoenix
    Jun 6th, '10, 22:31 QUOTE

    6#^1e^7S^5-^2AL^7|^2EN^7
    As always w3sp you can only complain without giving any help.


    OMG alien your post was so fucking helpful k thx. Seems all you can do is bitch about w3sp 24/7. And im still not trying to support w3sp but in this particular case im going to support the lesser of two idiots.


    As always people choose to bitch and whine rather than read what people are actually saying.

    This is not territory that should not be touched. It creates inconsistencies between the servers having different physics and it creates inconsistencies between online and offline.

    It's funny how people get deleted/banned based off of one aspect to one single serverdemo. Maybe it is cheated in some cases but it's also highly possible that some cases are just very lucky runs. I can't wait to see you guys cry hax when I start releasing some of my demos.

    Anyways ... you want suggestions? Leave it be.

  11. 11#  AL!EN
    Jun 6th, '10, 23:17 QUOTE

    10#^1P^7ho^1e^7ni^1x^7
    6#^1e^7S^5-^2AL^7|^2EN^7
    As always w3sp you can only complain without giving any help.
    Anyways ... you want suggestions? Leave it be.


    I know that it create inconsequence. But my suggestion is same as HK's:
    Move you ass w3sp and CGaz to do the same without touching the physic - otherwise don't be surprised that HK try to do what he can.

  12. 12#  [1337]
    Jun 7th, '10, 00:00 QUOTE

    6#^1e^7S^5-^2AL^7|^2EN^7
    As always w3sp you can only complain without giving any help.


    10#^1P^7ho^1e^7ni^1x^7
    6#^1e^7S^5-^2AL^7|^2EN^7
    As always w3sp you can only complain without giving any help.


    OMG alien your post was so fucking helpful k thx. Seems all you can do is bitch about w3sp 24/7. And im still not trying to support w3sp but in this particular case im going to support the lesser of two idiots.


    As always people choose to bitch and whine rather than read what people are actually saying.

    This is not territory that should not be touched. It creates inconsistencies between the servers having different physics and it creates inconsistencies between online and offline.

    It's funny how people get deleted/banned based off of one aspect to one single serverdemo. Maybe it is cheated in some cases but it's also highly possible that some cases are just very lucky runs. I can't wait to see you guys cry hax when I start releasing some of my demos.

    Anyways ... you want suggestions? Leave it be.



    we all know how much you cheat - getting a random 9 on w4, hahah

  13. 13#  [1337]
    Jun 7th, '10, 00:01 QUOTE

    fucking Errington or wat the fuck it was

  14. Jun 7th, '10, 00:22 QUOTE

    It's simple:

    1#^3Ba^2n^3a^2n^3a^2P^3ho^2n^3e^7
    I'll only say it once for you to understand:

    Quake physics are NOT your subject to intervene in.

    Fractional movement values are something natural to happen in the initial&last frame of a keypress.

    Detect abuse instead of modifying the game to prevent natural things from happening in everyone's runs...even yours. Nightmare coded serverdemos, so what the heck are you waiting for? Hoping for Gaz to do everything for you?

  15. Jun 7th, '10, 02:40 QUOTE

    4#^1<^7hk^1>^7^7
    This however now fixes everything. It took me 5 minutes to code and I stand by it.
    It "fixes" it at an unacceptable prize of modified physics. Physics were the same for 11 years and you think you can just walk by and change everything as you please?
    Apply your detection at where you're currently fucking up the physics. It takes no longer than 5 minutes to detect invalid fractional upmove values and properly log the caught people who have invalid input.

    If you want this to be gone feel free to help me out.
    I won't collaborate with you.

  16. 16#  <hk>
    Jun 7th, '10, 03:03 QUOTE

    Here is what I do:
    I clamp -128 to -127. That's hardly a physic change. It's just overriding a cheat. And that's it for the movement.
    I also force jump values up to 127. This prevents low moveup cheating(as i call it).

    Now to the side effects:
    Some clients don't always output 127 when players hit jump. Usually the upmove value jumps up to 127 without delay, but not theirs. Every 50th jump or so there are some values in between if the player has framedrops. I just force those to 127, too. The player is jumping exactly the same. I don't have to explain to you that this does not affect the jump duration, nor jump height. The only difference is that the player can't abuse his frame drops to accel a tiny bit more than others. In a way i am making things equal for everyone.

    I don't see a problem here. Maybe I just don't know enough, but I am willing to listen to suggestions.

    Now to the physic changes:
    There are NONE. I don't touch the physic. I just correct some errors in the input buffer, the way people press buttons. The mod does the physics, not us. We just look at input commands as they pass through. My cards are on the table.

    When it comes to anti cheating I have always been on my own. Nor cgaz or you have ever been willing to help us out. Bragging about knowledge doesn't gain us anything. I don't expect you to help me, though. You have never been doing anything to help others.

  17. 17#  Phoenix
    Jun 7th, '10, 04:04 QUOTE

    11#^1e^7S^5-^2AL^7|^2EN^7
    10#^1P^7ho^1e^7ni^1x^7
    6#^1e^7S^5-^2AL^7|^2EN^7
    As always w3sp you can only complain without giving any help.
    Anyways ... you want suggestions? Leave it be.


    I know that it create inconsequence. But my suggestion is same as HK's:
    Move you ass w3sp and CGaz to do the same without touching the physic - otherwise don't be surprised that HK try to do what he can.


    English please.

    12#^1n^7OO^1by ^7w^1OO^7by^7

    we all know how much you cheat - getting a random 9 on w4, hahah


    I don`t play fastcaps. That`s not me. I have very few online times.


  18. Jun 7th, '10, 04:09 QUOTE

    I don't care about your details, I told you my point twice already:

    It's simply not your business to change anything, especially if you later intend to use serverdemos as proofs. You could very well put invalid input in a player you dislike and then ban him with the serverdemo "proof". Hence I recommend you to leave player input completely untouched.
    You shall detect anything you dislike and consider a cheat, but not modify it.


    Those values inbetween aren't even necessarily fps dependent:
    I have completely perfect stable 125 fps, and send a random 10 seconds demo (test_bigbox) where I was hammering all keys. I had around 100 fractional values.

    Also your change is counterproductive because it makes scripts a lot more consistent.



    PS: I offered my help dozens of times and even contributed various things. If you still expect me to contribute anything while you're the incompetent admin in charge and wonder why I dont you'd be dumber than I thought. Back then I offered my help with detecting stuff and validating demos several times but was denied.
    Also I don't understand what your anti-cgaz attitude derivates from. One can always ask him for advices, help or information. You expected him to code everything for you, and failed to show him that you were recording server demos when he asked for proof...."No I won't send him serverdemos". That's all from me on this topic, don't disappoint me even more.

  19. 19#  <hk>
    Jun 7th, '10, 05:05 QUOTE

    18#^3Ba^2n^3a^2n^3a^2P^3ho^2n^3e^7
    You could very well put invalid input in a player you dislike and then ban him with the serverdemo "proof".

    When people don't even trust in server demos then everything else is pointless. Good old offline times. :/

    18#^3Ba^2n^3a^2n^3a^2P^3ho^2n^3e^7

    Hence I recommend you to leave player input completely untouched.

    It's an easy fix that saves me a lot of time on reading logs and seeking out demos uploading them and so on. It's one or two vs. many. This way I can just prevent simple stuff before it happens. Just like the anti trigger lag cheat code fixed 'natural behaviour'. Big gain on minimal price.

    18#^3Ba^2n^3a^2n^3a^2P^3ho^2n^3e^7

    Also your change is counterproductive because it makes scripts a lot more consistent.

    Probably true. I didn't check on that, honestly. We are past the scripting stage of cheating though.

    18#^3Ba^2n^3a^2n^3a^2P^3ho^2n^3e^7

    PS: I offered my help dozens of times and even contributed various things.

    Like layout improvements of the website. Thanks for that.

    18#^3Ba^2n^3a^2n^3a^2P^3ho^2n^3e^7

    Back then I offered my help with detecting stuff and validating demos several times but was denied.

    Handing out demos to external validators was and is still out of the question. I don't recall you wanting to develop some anti cheat measures. You must have talked to other members of mDd in secret about that, I guess.


    18#^3Ba^2n^3a^2n^3a^2P^3ho^2n^3e^7

    Also I don't understand what your anti-cgaz attitude derivates from. One can always ask him [...]

    I switched to "He forgot about us. I'll take it from here."

    I am curious who this "One" is. :)
    We handed gaz a few demos plus demo parsing code and some ideas of what we were planing. He took the demos and told us he could use them. That's pretty much how things ended. However there was one information that he did relay to us. He would talk to us about anti cheating some day, as long as it doesn't involve you. I guess that's where his good intentions end. You. I can't expect any help regarding advanced cheating, from someone, when he fears i might be catching you with that.
    This is more the w3sp approach I used here. I did something that wasn't 100% accurate but it fixed the problem, well. Then i wait who comes and bitches about it, to see how to make it 'better'. Well, I do know how to make it better, but it's more complex and not worth the effort. I know this is only 99.5% accurate but no one will notice the difference. ^1I don't touch your mighty fractional values.^7


    I hate quoting. It blows posts up. Could we move this into the forum?

  20. 20#  RAZ3R
    Jun 8th, '10, 18:18 QUOTE

    How does this change make scripts more consistent? If you put a wait at the start of any script it should be 100% consistent anyway, so I don't think this will help anyone cheat.

  21. Jun 9th, '10, 10:02 QUOTE

    lol'd

  22. Jun 11th, '10, 18:37 QUOTE

    20#^7RAZ^13^7R^7
    How does this change make scripts more consistent? If you put a wait at the start of any script it should be 100% consistent anyway, so I don't think this will help anyone cheat.


    keke^^

    on the subject:
    moe security will always end in more sophisticated cheats, but in my opinion its the lesser of two evils.
    however, the power that relies on hk's hands is big now, and, i am afraid, very seductive...

  23. 23#  AL!EN
    Jun 17th, '10, 09:53 QUOTE

    Welcome :-]

  24. Jul 23rd, '10, 13:20 QUOTE

    hk's doing a great job, cheating in df was a mess, finally things are getting fair, this should have been done long ago.

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