New in here...

[Jake_The_Peg]

Hello folks,

Some of you might have noticed me jumpin around the place in last coupl-a weeks... I been playing about month and a half..

Previously, I've been playing Quake 2 Jump mode. About 10 years back or something... And that did help some, but not much. Especially in CPM.

Righty ho then.. Been playing some time, and here's what I found so far:

Right at the start, I was asking for some basic mappack to begin with.
I did ask that on IRC, Defrag room. And been told something like "Sod off!", but in not so precise-a-fashion. Righty ho.
Later I did found some pack here in this forum, but I do not think it's running all right, because if I try to play offline, there really IS a pretty impressive maplist, but when I try to click on some of the maps, the game does ..on the whole.. nothing. But some maps, Do work at least.

So that's maps. Now.. How to jump?
From q2 I Did have some basic strafe-skills, or at least I used to have... But how about CPM?
Which is shall we say, the next point... So far, I have not been able to find a really comprehensive VQ3/CPM comparison anywhere. Wiki on this site has it covered about as well, as a stripper.

And how about some practice videos? Jump tutorials?
The videos.. I seen (circa) both of em, and non explained the technique of CPM jumps.
Zoot is not doing some small series, which I am watching closely (Thanks, Zoto!), but it's only VQ3, to be precise QL physics.

Tutorials? Non, as far as I can tell... only pad maps, and they dont tell u much, only if you passed or not.

What's more? Ah.. Commands
That's another rat in a bag..
For instance, Has anyone a complete list of commands on the place? Console? Cgaz? I did find some of them here: http://games.linuxdude.com/tamaps/archi ... readme.txt (And I ant sure, that it's all of 'em either!).. But cgaz? Nothing so far, apart from some article on http://www.trickjump.me

Further more, the CGAZ quite aggravates me, sometimes. Because on strafing, it's quite good, yes, but if you airstrafe, then from the moving target the gaz becomes a sitting duck, glued to the aimpoint, almost impossible to shake off. And the airstrafe seems about half the battle in CPM, so in other words: Gaz is only suited for vq3 (as far as I can tell) and not cpm.
And VQ3 is growing unpopular with me, 'coz in non-weapon maps, you usually have to bump the walls like a drunk sailor, in order to get fast times.


But apart from all these niceities, the DF is quite a pleasant thing to watch. Especially the maps, that I cannot do (i.e. pretty much all the weapon ones, or some really difficult ones, like the aNnh's slickchallenge...)

Any comments, perhaps?
//correction: Not Airstrafe but.. 'aircontrol'.. or so I am told.

[Carlos]

Lol, hi)

[Jake_The_Peg]

Ah, two further thoughts:

What, in the name of saint Newton, gains ups faster: vq-Strafe or Airstrafe??
I just don't know. Never heard anyone to explain it succinctly.

And another point:
I quite like the functionality of the old Q2 jump mode.

It had One map, yet two teams on it, not-unlike CTF for example. Easy and Hard.
On Easy you went on the map, had a savepos function and could practise maps in segments.
On hard, you couldnt save, and the time was recorded. That is pretty nice function imho, but probably not so much useful on pure-strafe maps, when there are not much... shall we say, clear segments. But on a map like Koz24/25: Ideal.

ANd further more, Quake 2 had a replay function.
You know, when u play offline, your own demo chase u around?
Exactly that type of avatar was jumping around all the time in Q2JM.
And you could have replayed the top time anytime you wanted, just type in "/replay".

So newbies like me, could have looked on, shall we say, the top bugger got the time down 50% for example.

And this function would .. I think.. considerably improve MANY maps, 'coz I havent yet seen a map, where ppl(people) like Bazz for example, did not think the toptime is unbeatable.

And for people like me, it'd be breath of fresh air, coz instantly, i could start learning from the masters.

[Jake_The_Peg]

On the other hand, Q2 Jump mode had several bad qualities also...
For example timers started straight from spawn... Which could be considered a bad move perhaps...
Also, the savepos points were purely stationary. So not only could you not save your position with movement vector, but also.. if there were for example some rotating platform, and you saved your position on it, u kept falling off more often than not.

But nontheless, the Ez/Hard teams were pretty useful thing, imo.

[Timothy]

And how about some practice videos? Jump tutorials?
The videos.. I seen (circa) both of em, and non explained the technique of CPM jumps.
Zoot is not doing some small series, which I am watching closely (Thanks, Zoto!), but it's only VQ3, to be precise QL physics.

Tutorials? Non, as far as I can tell... only pad maps, and they dont tell u much, only if you passed or not.

I only know of the Genesis movie, which taught me most of the very basics in defrag. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72Q9SvMLMWE

I don't think there are any other good tutorial movies that cover more advanced tricks.

Further more, the CGAZ quite aggravates me, sometimes. Because on strafing, it's quite good, yes, but if you airstrafe, then from the moving target the gaz becomes a sitting duck, glued to the aimpoint, almost impossible to shake off. And the airstrafe seems about half the battle in CPM, so in other words: Gaz is only suited for vq3 (as far as I can tell) and not cpm.

Not sure what you mean with the hud becoming a sitting duck mid-air. I don't see how the cgaz hud is any different from vq3 either?

What, in the name of saint Newton, gains ups faster: vq-Strafe or Airstrafe??

What do you mean with vq-strafe?

On Easy you went on the map, had a savepos function and could practise maps in segments.
On hard, you couldnt save, and the time was recorded. That is pretty nice function imho, but probably not so much useful on pure-strafe maps, when there are not much... shall we say, clear segments. But on a map like Koz24/25: Ideal.

You can enable cheats by voting a map with /callvote devmap <map>. With cheats enabled you can save and load your position. This is ofcourse not ideal when multiple people are on the server and some of them want to play without cheats.

ANd further more, Quake 2 had a replay function.
You know, when u play offline, your own demo chase u around?
Exactly that type of avatar was jumping around all the time in Q2JM.
And you could have replayed the top time anytime you wanted, just type in "/replay".

You can have a ghost enabled when playing online as well. I don't agree with having a ghost for top times though. One of the fun parts in defrag is having to find your own routes.

[Jake_The_Peg]

Tim.. By sitting duck I meant that for vq-type-strafe (WD+mouseturn) works fine. For airstrafe (D+mouseturn) it doesnt. It does Not show me much of anything at that point. Eventhough I am "in the green" I can still go down to basic 500ups.
Almost stationary, that's all I'm sayin.

Devmap, First of all, I have never seen it done in all the time I play here.. And secondly, even if you practice, you still cannot instantly join the other team to have your time recorded, as you could have done in q2.

Ghost: Yup, but that'd be only my personal one, not the one of the scoreboard leader.
And if it was.. U sure it'd eliminate the path-finding fun? I dont think so... Coz, as I said, I havent seen many players coming to a map and saying: This record is unbeatable. QED.

[Jake_The_Peg]

And once again, Finding my own routes aint the problem here.. I am still in the 'Orrible noobz stage' and having around the possibility to replay the toptime demo, would enable me and other players, to learn from the top.

Anyhow, All these points, that I outlined, are pretty much a basis for a solid stream of players coming in and joining, not only old idiots like me.

If DF decides to kick out the most experienced players, and there are several examples (or so i am told)... And the old ones leave, like Orc...

Then 3 years from now... Adios amigos.

[demon0r]

Damn, a new player in defrag, I didn't expect that to happen

But seriously - I would help you if only I found the motivation to play myself But there's subforum called 'How to defrag', maybe there are some clues for beginners...

[Jake_The_Peg]

Then again, maybe not.. Don't you think, that at least Some of these explanations should be put in a wiki or at least one single article, as opposed to a (for instance) a discussion thread...?

[muckster]

Hello and welcome.