appeal to the best players

[Brigand]

Speaking of inactivity at 6 months, I don't think I was joking. We again got a polite rejection on every part of this topic. No problem, you should know that I'm not accusing you of fraud. Ingratitude, man. We're talking about this. But your answers are clear to me, I have nothing to add. Good luck! and pardon for my English, I have difficulties even with Russian)

[chert pomojnyj]

The substantive findings of science are a product of social collaboration and are assigned to the community. They are a common heritage in which the equity of the individual producer is severely limited... rather than exclusive ownership of the discoverer and their heirs.

[qxwe]

Sigh.
Just try to apply that to the concept of competition, and more specifically defrag. Individual findings that are not shared are an integral part of making competition interesting (in an ideal DFWC, that would be the case, e.g.) and a motivation to find new methods to even be able to compete. Taking that away by oversharing essentially kills what makes the game interesting. But I see I represent a widely unpopular opinion.
Have fun competing just to see who has the best mechanical skills, angles and reflexes!
The question is not: Are you really the best? , but it is:
Are you really the biggest grinder?

[Brigand]

None of that matters. We have 3 knowledge: 1) today's "best players" were nothing at the time of the Arcaon's and others. 2) these best players licked big Dutch eggs on dfwc. 3) the wesp hacks was found on his demo. The DFWC has a $ 5,000 fame, and the return of inactive players proves it. However, some of the registered participants did not send a demo. What was that? Lacked texture "slick"? I publicly just what others are discussing in private conversations, like a rotting cock. Say thank you and keep enjoying the results. Best player's. And last: I don't care about the cpm-strafe, so your demo has no value for me personally. I'd rather watch run_cheez6, score, and pgu. And in this category players, thank God do not fuck about passion. Exchange demo - it's what creates the level defrag until 2018. If you reject these rules - you suckers.

[Brigand]

I want to put an end to this topic. The problem isn't the demo, it's the passion. Don't give demos, don't share experiences and keep improving results. We are happy for your success. But shut your fucking mouths about passion, motherfuckers. You have never had a passion and never will.

[qxwe]

The lack of coherence and a substantial point make it hard for me to come up with any decent answer anymore. I agree on closing this topic, but I'll have you know that trying to taunt and insult me and aNnh would have put an end to this debate anyway: I will not engage in offtopic bullshitting.
Have a nice day

[Brigand]

You were friendly to me always I guess this topic was a betrayal from me) it's Nothing personal. I didn't mean to offend you personally or Annh. The message wasn't just for you. BUT YOUR STEALTH FORCE OTHERS TO FOLLOW IN YOUR FOOTSTEPS. And so we do not see not only your demos, but the demos of other participants. Think about it. Good luck!

[XPC32]

W3SP CHEATED!!! FITE ME!

[SysLocalAdmin]

I have had the same issue as nL-Brigand (DSS) with this community. I started only a few months ago and I would always ask people in servers questions on how to best do a certain technique relating to a map.

What is the fastest way to move under the water in CPM?
How do you do a VQ3 rocket ground boost?
What's the fastest way to move in the air with Flight power up?

People would just say same things qxwe is more or less saying and <3 R'n'B would say in server, "why don't you learn on your own?"

I tried multiple times to compare one demo to another, slow with timescale, it's a hard process and it's not clear how much is human error from being a noob or placebo or real speed increase. I feel like the community is very cliquey with many people sharing knowledge only to other people on their "pro level" or secret demos to each other while saying, "I'll give you the demo IVYX8 but only if you don't share with anyone else."

Honestly, competition is a good thing. I'm a new player but I believe all demos should be publicly available. If DeFRaG turns into a grind, so be it, at least we can see the highest level of human functioning on that map and what is possible on it. In the Olympics everything is transparent, and there is no ingenuity that is possible like in this game, sure, but the impressiveness is to see the highest level of human achievement. It's selfish to prevent the game from going a higher level, from not sharing techniques with new people, just so you can say, "I found this route first, I'm first, I'm the best." I think people are more interested in who can push the limit of the map short of using any "aim assistance," "scripts," "unfair advantages," i.e. cheats. I don't think sharing demos should be so controversial, also, when the scene becomes reduced to 5 people playing in the year 2050, I want whatever the future of DeFRaG that's left to have some clues how anything was done since there's only so many demos in existence and many of the mysteries of the top times that are bizarre, almost "cheat like" will never be explained.

I want the best grinder. I want to see the best of human achievement. I don't care for anyone who is too greedy to share because they are cleverly smiling in their private chats with other "pros" knowing that this demo will go with them to the grave.

No disrespect to pros but why so greedy? Even if I had the demo, I'd never be able to reproduce such talents, and if someone can beat it after learning new info, why not welcome a new challenge? Why are you so afraid?

-sum nub

[XPC32]

how to best do a certain technique relating to a map.

No one knows most likely unless it is a gvn map.

What is the fastest way to move under the water in CPM?

No one knows yet :/

How do you do a VQ3 rocket ground boost?

The same way you would if it were cpm, but it prolly isn't all that useful.

What's the fastest way to move in the air with Flight power up?

No one actually knows yet :/

People would just say same things qxwe is more or less saying and <3 R'n'B would say in server, "why don't you learn on your own?"

I don't know all that much about fm in this regards, but I can say inder (qwxe) really does help people if you personally ask him. He probably isn't against teaching people the core techniques. In fact, I have seen him do the opposite often times ie. giving a bunch of demos to TempheX, and suddenly TempheX becoming "decent" (:P) tier at strafe.

I'm a new player but I believe all demos should be publicly available.

Honestly, I believe all demos shouldn't be released. Why should they? Some demos are so creative they absolutely shouldn't be released. All players have access to the same core materials and tutorials, yet some take these principles and apply them in brilliant and unique ways. In releasing such demos you effectively do the following:
- kill all the mystery, and fun struggle involved in finding the route
- kill potential future creativity. why would someone bother finding a route, when they can just steal it from a demo and do it a frame better by grinding a few days?
- that feels so killjoy man

Honestly if this is how you feel the game should be, I would tell you this game isn't the right one for you. The game is progressively becoming monotone thanks to the quality of maps these days. It's boiling more and more down to finding the right snap zones and whoring them. You are telling me you want to further monotone-ize the game by having all the demos publically available so people can just whore a few more frames here and there?

It's selfish to prevent the game from going a higher level

I would argue withholding demos sometimes aides the game in going to a higher level. The mystery can inspire people to come up with their own better creative routes and techniques as opposed to copying an existing run. You have to realize there is a difference between withholding techniques and routes. Furthermore, the worst withholding either can do is delay progress, not prevent. Eventually, someone out there will figure something out to get even. It's happened time and time again and will continue to happen till the game dies out.

No disrespect to pros but why so greedy? Even if I had the demo, I'd never be able to reproduce such talents, and if someone can beat it after learning new info, why not welcome a new challenge?

Just because you can't, doesn't mean someone else won't spend an eternity trying to replay the creative run just to shave a frame and be first. At which point, it really isn't a new challenge at all for the creative runner. Just mindless pathetic grinding for eternity and beyond to rebeat.

There was once a time where like you, I felt strongly about all demos being released. However, after playing for some time now, I am more in the middle. If someone wants to share a demo, go ahead, if someone doesn't, that should be fine too. No one here is entitled to see someone else's run. That right belongs to the runner.

- nubest guy in the game.