Seriously,

[legit]

Nina: Mysterious? LOL. I could say the same about you, and how you send all your pics to random defrag dudes and say 'don't share this with anybody', but yet are doing so yourself.

Can't believe that guy is still pretending to be a girl after all these years.

There MIIGHT be a serious plot twist for you.

[eLeMeNt]

Really really sad what happend to the community..
Every 'good' player deny to get specced, especially those 42 dudes.
New trend? Why we not all play offline then?
Not fun anymore to be part off honestly..

Bunny doesn't let you spec if you don't say hello to him, which in a way is fair. Easily solved though.

Anyway to the point; I think that route sharing is a friendly & community thing but the fact is that even if someone asks not to have their route shared(for competitive purposes) they won't be respected so this is what is happening. If it really matters so much to you though you could try to be friendly with these people beforehand and chances are they'll feel more comfortable letting you spec. An example of this is that I'm apart of 42 and Adrian lets me spec(He competes with Inder). At first he didn't and I got annoyed naturally because I feel differently about it than him but we talked about it and now he's fine with me speccing. It's not an issue at all really, people are for the most part rational and communication solves all problems.

[rlx|mini]

Really really sad what happend to the community..
Every 'good' player deny to get specced, especially those 42 dudes.
New trend? Why we not all play offline then?
Not fun anymore to be part off honestly..

Bunny doesn't let you spec if you don't say hello to him, which in a way is fair. Easily solved though.

Anyway to the point; I think that route sharing is a friendly & community thing but the fact is that even if someone asks not to have their route shared(for competitive purposes) they won't be respected so this is what is happening. If it really matters so much to you though you could try to be friendly with these people beforehand and chances are they'll feel more comfortable letting you spec. An example of this is that I'm apart of 42 and Adrian lets me spec(He competes with Inder). At first he didn't and I got annoyed naturally because I feel differently about it than him but we talked about it and now he's fine with me speccing. It's not an issue at all really, people are for the most part rational and communication solves all problems.

^

I understand your point element, and i agree with that. But its not the case unfortunatly. Im always fair and friendly talkative to other peps, and im the last one who copy routes. When i have found a good route i dont want to share it in first point too. Im ok with it. But hey they even deny on the simplest maps. So it cant be the route or competive thing. IMO its just a part of a big troll. Anyway im not in love with annh or 42 at all and god yeah there are ALOT better people to spec. its just sad imo. But when they deny they should respect others too and dont spec them either! which they do!

[sL1k]

sin halt alles vegetarier, die ham was gegen speck

[legit]

sin halt alles vegetarier, die ham was gegen speck

:!

Es gibt aber immer noch Tofu! ;D

[eLeMeNt]

Really really sad what happend to the community..
Every 'good' player deny to get specced, especially those 42 dudes.
New trend? Why we not all play offline then?
Not fun anymore to be part off honestly..

Bunny doesn't let you spec if you don't say hello to him, which in a way is fair. Easily solved though.

Anyway to the point; I think that route sharing is a friendly & community thing but the fact is that even if someone asks not to have their route shared(for competitive purposes) they won't be respected so this is what is happening. If it really matters so much to you though you could try to be friendly with these people beforehand and chances are they'll feel more comfortable letting you spec. An example of this is that I'm apart of 42 and Adrian lets me spec(He competes with Inder). At first he didn't and I got annoyed naturally because I feel differently about it than him but we talked about it and now he's fine with me speccing. It's not an issue at all really, people are for the most part rational and communication solves all problems.

^

I understand your point element, and i agree with that. But its not the case unfortunatly. Im always fair and friendly talkative to other peps, and im the last one who copy routes. When i have found a good route i dont want to share it in first point too. Im ok with it. But hey they even deny on the simplest maps. So it cant be the route or competive thing. IMO its just a part of a big troll. Anyway im not in love with annh or 42 at all and god yeah there are ALOT better people to spec. its just sad imo. But when they deny they should respect others too and dont spec them either! which they do!

I mean actually being genuine friends, not just friendly. But yes I agree it can be a little odd sometimes or have a different reason(Niger told me he was shy at one point?). Also it's not so much about you specifically stealing a route it's more about passing it on to other people. In the end it should be able to be brushed off considering it doesn't really matter, does it? This game has never had a strong community from the time I started playing, people oddly want to defend this but it has such a low player-base and has had it's divides. Surely people not wanting to be spec'd is as harmful as the drama that's already present in this thread with the personal attacks on Valia.

For further clarity and back on topic there is a mutual rivalry and competition between some players. For example Inder and Adrian. People who spectate these players have gone and given routes to the other player and neither of them want this.

[cmc]

I guess I am still somewhat undecided on where I stand on the issue of spectating. I can certainly appreciate both sides...

On one hand, you can think of route finding/strategies for a map as an integral part of the game itself; just as important as anything else. In that regard, knowingly spectating someone just to understand the route for yourself or others would be going against the spirit of the game, which is competitive. That makes a strong case for not allowing people to see you play.

On the other hand, playing defrag (especially on MDD servers) is, in part, community-centered. Discouraging players from spectating you certainly detracts from the community aspect, in my opinion. I can understand it if you have had your routes stolen from an individual in the past, but I am sure most specs (myself included) are not watching just to take an idea and copy it. Disallowing people to spectate also inhibits growth in some cases; which may be the intended result--but goes against the spirit of the community.

I guess ideally, people would assume positive intent (innocent until proven guilty), and be more permissive. I don't expect it to happen across-the-board, but it is my hope. I certainly don't care for the trend of people becoming more and more secretive as time passes. I think it's harming the DF community. If you really want to be secret, play offline.

Lastly -- who gives a damn who/what Valia is? It's not like you're going to meet up IRL, so why is this still being talked about?

[skyhighguy]

I randomly let various people I find cool spectate, mini included. There are instances though in which I am working on a map and nervously play because somebody may or may not relay information to another player who can beat my time. I also cannot prove who is who. Some alias as players that already exist elsewhere.

Some players not allowing spectating? Big deal. There has been these types of players since the beginning of defrag time. Ruin the game? As if. If anything w3sp, the biggest non spect allowing player since the beginning of defrag time, inspired far more defragers to become great than any spect allowing player hands down.

As I may have already said, this 'anger' or backlash towards spect denial is just proof that people feel they are entitled to any and everyone's performance in this game. If it ruins the game for you, then you were not really playing the game in the first place. (Oh does it really fit that well? - Spec argument, not playing - HA)

Mini - Didn't mean any hate towards you dude. But this post clearly describes my thoughts on this topic.

Nina - Nobody shares your 'lack of concern' with life. Passionate people win, those with no fire for desire lose. Keep telling me not to care or be serious. You are just praising the current generations lack of effort by announcing your couch potato syndrome. I may be a nerd, but I think with my mind not my head beech.

[kane.ups]

wasnt w3sp scared of people specing cuz he was cheating tho? wasnt around for that but i thought i saw a thread where he was banned. seems to me that people who strafebot/use other scripts are scared of their cheats being shown

i think a public demo database would solve this problem, people can just download demos to ensure the other person isnt cheating during a particular run, and they wont need to spec the other player which might make them nervous. also gets rid of the problem of some people scared of their route being seen or whatever

[Timothy]

i think a public demo database would solve this problem, people can just download demos to ensure the other person isnt cheating during a particular run.

also gets rid of the problem of some people scared of their route being seen or whatever