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Maps and the process of creating them

Re: screenshots

Postby <)Ghost(> » Apr 7th, '14, 11:18 am

u might want to clip it urself.. using auto-clipping on ase models will double ur vis/tri count (i forget) and drop fps...ie: the celings and stuff where players can't get to dont need to be clipped
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Re: screenshots

Postby Le another black niger » Apr 7th, '14, 7:56 pm

Bacon wrote:Quake has a "spawnflags 2" tag you can add to .ASE models and it automatically clips off the map for you.


q3map2's autoclipping might produce pretty awful bugged brushes tho
happens most likely with small polygons
there are good solutions for clipping right in modeling apps: convexity for 3dsmax, tool from exporter-0.21 for blender, .map exporter plugin for cinema4d

also lighting is an issue.. by default models are vertexlit, but often some materials become lightmapped - depending on geometry .o
its possible to force completely lightmapped model with other spawnflag, but result will be enough awful most likely; the problem is non-axially aligned lightmap seams
its possible to bake fine lighting in you modeling app:
-make a shell and bake shadows there - but 2x polys then
-bake texture+shadow - big pk3 then



<)Ghost(> wrote:using auto-clipping on ase models will double ur vis/tri count (i forget) and drop fps...


pure natural bs
collisions != tris (and they live pretty separately)
collisions might drop er fps by overloading physics engine only if you have too much of them in your leaf-node
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Re: screenshots

Postby - » Apr 7th, '14, 9:26 pm

Exporting as map is not an option. I went through this already. There's 10x the amount of triangles generated. I think you guys are forgetting these are maps from n64 games, which already has some of the simplest geometry there is. Villa multiplayer for example is almost all pure flat surfaces, all on 90 degree angles.

As for the FPS drop, i'm calling horseshit on that too. I tested all of these maps on a shitty core2duo from about 6 years ago, and there is zero slowdown. The only thing spawnflags 2 is really affecting is compile time. However, compile time with brushes instead of an .ASE model takes about 20-25x as long from the tests I ran. No thanks. Delphino plaza only takes 2 minutes for a full bounce 8 samples 2 light compile.

Not a single map has produced "bugged" geometry, and collisions all work how you'd expect them to by looking at the geometry.

Lighting can be done per surface within the ASE model itself, by making a shader for each face I want to emit light. These ASE models have a material definition per face, not one single UV texture being applied to it.

So yeah, thanks for the tips, but none of these issues are present in any tests i've done, and I dont plan on doing geometry more complicated than first gen gamecube titles.

This place is starting to remind me of stackoverflow more and more, and trust me, I dont mean that in a good way. These concerns are understandable if we were in the year 2001 still, but were not. I don't plan on making maps that cater to people that are too stubborn to spend 300$ to upgrade their pentium II mmx or whatever other piece of shit they have, especially when most of these will be for personal use. /rant :drool:
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Re: screenshots

Postby Le another black niger » Apr 7th, '14, 10:04 pm

i didn't tell 'exporting as map'
suggested method is model + exported clipping brushes
but hf there, if you are ok with q3map2's clipping

'10x the amount of triangles' and '20-25x as long compile time' sound like 'no caulk + everything structural' approach
otherwise that not gonna be true
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Re: screenshots

Postby - » Apr 7th, '14, 10:13 pm

Actually no, it was all detail inside a structural cube skybox, and every face was caulked on export from blender. I had to manually re texture it all. I keep forgetting you worked with me on these, my bad.

Just take a look at this pic: here

This is the brushwork that every map exporter generates. Its shitty and almost 14,000 brushes need to be csg merged. This is what it would look like if I exported the map as clip brushes. On top of that, pic related needs to be fixed as well in tons of places. The map exporters can't even handle simple geometry like this. Half of the brushes are missing too because the exporter generates 32,000u long spiked brushes from meshes that are too small. There's another 10 hours to re add them all by hand back in. It's almost like you havn't even used these tools before.

Yeah i'm mad. I'm mad because no matter where I post screenshots of something, instead of people commenting on the map itself, it turns into tutorial time, how to do this, how to optimize that. It turns into people questioning you. I get it. I get hinting, I get optimizing, I get clipping. I get it. I don't need map making lessons 101.
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Re: screenshots

Postby <)Ghost(> » Apr 7th, '14, 10:46 pm

Bacon wrote:Yeah i'm mad. I'm mad because no matter where I post screenshots of something, instead of people commenting on the map itself, it turns into tutorial time, how to do this, how to optimize that. It turns into people questioning you. I get it. I get hinting, I get optimizing, I get clipping. I get it. I don't need map making lessons 101.



its part of the process of posting something in the ss thread from someone who has never released a map before
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Re: screenshots

Postby - » Apr 7th, '14, 11:32 pm

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Last edited by - on Apr 22nd, '14, 10:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: screenshots

Postby Le another black niger » Apr 8th, '14, 12:00 am

look at this map http://ws.q3df.org/map/ok-bumblbee/ levelshot
how perfectly clipping fits the source model
no cracks or broken stuff

cracks on your screenie are caused by 1.6 (1.4?) radiant though, it likes rounding
what exporter did you use for that? i see extrusion along normals there, do want that

as for the map
such vertex shadows look ugly:
1.jpg

shadows from trees suddenly stop .o
no shadows from trees heads
such shadows want some filtering options:
2.jpg


what gameplay this map will have?
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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Re: screenshots

Postby - » Apr 8th, '14, 12:14 am

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Last edited by - on Apr 22nd, '14, 10:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: screenshots

Postby <)Ghost(> » Apr 8th, '14, 11:20 am

Bacon wrote:I can almost guarantee you 100% that if I never mentioned I figured out how to use ase models, and that I was just working on the maps as normal, then nothing about clipping and vis would have even been mentioned. I'd release the map and the clipping works fine, so you wouldn't even be able to tell. I wouldn't be getting lectured about how to use clip brushes or how the engine handles models, instead mabye a "oh, that looks cool" or something.

it is cool what u did, but personally it looks like shit
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