Board index DeFRaG Mapping

Need advices for maps

Maps and the process of creating them

Need advices for maps

Postby ZeeL » Aug 13th, '12, 10:08 am

Hey there !

After some rough tries, i realised that i need to improve a lot of things on my maps. I won t talk about the textures( i rarely use more than 4 different textures anyway ^^), decoration or else as it s not really what i m looking to when i do a map, even if i try to give them an identity. What s important to me is the flaw and gameplay on a map.

My goal is to make the map enjoyable for almost every level of player, from total rookie to best epeen strafers. While it s not that hard for rookies, it s now clear that i need to do something else for good players. Arcaon already helped me a lot by sending me his demos, and i clearly see something is wrong (at least from my point of view).

Maps obviously reflect the level of the mapper. When i test them, i have my route, calculate ramp jumps, turns , obstacle, slopes etc, but that works that way only for my own speed. I try to imagine what happens if someone goes faster than me but a lot of players have routes and speed i don t even think were possibles :D

So, on a cpm strafe run, what do you think it s fun ? Having to take large turns to compensate when an obstacle is too close don t seems fun for me. We should never be punished by going to fast. Making flat maps would be the easiest (but boring) solution but i love ramps, slopes, double jumps etc. I try to take exemple on my favorite strafe map : bull-highway , this one is my favorte simply because i had fun when i started defrag 2 years ago, and still have now because i improve my time regulary and there s still room for more speed.
Avoiding pads is the best way i found so far. Overjumping a pad is the worst thing for me. But i don t know if it s possible to combine series of obstacle without the possibility to overjump, or hitting a wall by having the feeling you can t really go faster because of those obstacles.

Sorry for the bloc text and my english, have fun !
User avatar
ZeeL
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Dec 31st, '10, 2:06 pm

Re: Need advices for maps

Postby wubwub » Aug 14th, '12, 12:31 pm

ZeeL wrote:Avoiding pads is the best way i found so far. Overjumping a pad is the worst thing for me. But i don t know if it s possible to combine series of obstacle without the possibility to overjump


a half-decent way to get around this is to make asymmetrical pads/blocks so people can pick their own route through the section

a really bad example (but all i can think of right now) would be http://ws.q3df.org/map/lovet-sun/, where you can pick your line based on your speed but you're still using pads/columns instead of a block to strafe on :v
wubwub
 
Posts: 235
Joined: Feb 20th, '11, 7:05 pm

Re: Need advices for maps

Postby <)Ghost(> » Aug 14th, '12, 4:03 pm

try to make that maps difficult for you. not sure on your skill level, but for me, if i can get there once out of every 20 times(just random numbers, but u get the idea) then it is moderate difficulty for other players. really test your map, spend a couple of hours testing it, looking for all those shortcuts, just beacause you have a set route in mind, doesnt mean other players are going to follow it.

ZeeL wrote:Hey there !
My goal is to make the map enjoyable for almost every level of player


not possible.
<)Ghost(>
 
Posts: 347
Joined: May 2nd, '09, 3:19 pm

Re: Need advices for maps

Postby oranje » Aug 15th, '12, 5:54 am

<)Ghost(> wrote:
ZeeL wrote:Hey there !
My goal is to make the map enjoyable for almost every level of player


not possible.


Unless you make the most simple map for the newbies to enjoy. But then you put a shortcut in the map which is a bit harder than the original run, and in that shortcut you put another shortcut that is even harder than for the one before. And then you keep making shortcuts inside other shortcuts which get harder and harder until the difficulty is torture-esque. Then you make more harder shortcuts inside those previously health-threatening shortcuts that even bots programmed to run them will develop AI just so they could sit in a corner and weep. But you don't stop there, you build even more shortcuts that would cause retinas of people who get a glimpse of it to spontaneously combust, so that your only option of ever finishing the run would be to genetically engineer some sort of atomic super-men...
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
oranje
 
Posts: 107
Joined: Jun 1st, '10, 4:37 am

Re: Need advices for maps

Postby [fps]Mntr » Aug 15th, '12, 9:13 am

nice drugs bro
[fps]Mntr
 
Posts: 49
Joined: Feb 27th, '11, 5:23 pm

Re: Need advices for maps

Postby Arcaon » Aug 15th, '12, 12:10 pm

oransje wrote:
<)Ghost(> wrote:
ZeeL wrote:Hey there !
My goal is to make the map enjoyable for almost every level of player


not possible.


Unless you make the most simple map for the newbies to enjoy. But then you put a shortcut in the map which is a bit harder than the original run, and in that shortcut you put another shortcut that is even harder than for the one before. And then you keep making shortcuts inside other shortcuts which get harder and harder until the difficulty is torture-esque. Then you make more harder shortcuts inside those previously health-threatening shortcuts that even bots programmed to run them will develop AI just so they could sit in a corner and weep. But you don't stop there, you build even more shortcuts that would cause retinas of people who get a glimpse of it to spontaneously combust, so that your only option of ever finishing the run would be to genetically engineer some sort of atomic super-men...


The thing is, the idea isn't even half bad. When you get to those bot shortcuts, you simultaneously get to the extra-jump noob routes!
Arcaon
 
Posts: 325
Joined: Oct 16th, '09, 1:36 am

Re: Need advices for maps

Postby ZeeL » Aug 16th, '12, 7:13 pm

I tried the shortcut idea a while ago but it didn t work well. For exemple, the last cut in zeel-exzeel was added for good players. Unfortunately i simplify it down because i wanted to test it. The result is that very good players don t even touch the cut and just fly throught it.

I don t like the idea to place element and hope they will act well at high speed because i can t test them.
User avatar
ZeeL
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Dec 31st, '10, 2:06 pm

Re: Need advices for maps

Postby <)Ghost(> » Aug 17th, '12, 9:13 am

how long do u spend testing your maps?
<)Ghost(>
 
Posts: 347
Joined: May 2nd, '09, 3:19 pm

Re: Need advices for maps

Postby amt-morbus » Aug 17th, '12, 11:03 am

tbh, the best shortcuts are most of the time random. Place enough content around your main route and ppl(people) will just find out the fastest route by inventing shortcuts.
Image
User avatar
amt-morbus
 
Posts: 231
Joined: Jun 4th, '10, 8:28 pm

Re: Need advices for maps

Postby <)Ghost(> » Aug 18th, '12, 2:26 am

for example as a shortcut... you could've opened these up instead of clipping it and spaced it through out the map. dont wanna overkill it though, have 1 or 2 here and there.

Image
<)Ghost(>
 
Posts: 347
Joined: May 2nd, '09, 3:19 pm

Next

cron