Board index mDd Board Rule finding board

OK: Interference

This stays here as long as it takes to work out the new server rules

Should this helper be free to use?

This is not cheat
31
69%
This is cheat
14
31%
 
Total votes : 45

OK: Interference

Postby <hk> » Oct 12th, '09, 9:23 pm

Since, not everyone seems to be pleased with the current server rules i suggest we develop new rules for the server here in this thread. Please try to find rules that have as least exceptions as possible. I want this to be constructive, so please make short posts which concentrate on essential things. Stay on Topic and do not spam.

Should it be allowed to interfere with other players during their runs?
This includes pushing/shooting buttons and blocking doors. It does not matter who controls the interfering client.
User avatar
<hk>
Menstruating 24/7
 
Posts: 1040
Joined: May 2nd, '09, 12:06 am
Location: Ingolstadt Germany

Re: Interference

Postby <hk> » Oct 12th, '09, 9:29 pm

In my humble opinion it's not allowed to interfere since defrag does it's best to prevent just that. I don't care if some doors are opening too slow. It's the mappers fault. There are runs out there where you have to open a door near the start to reach the finish line. You could put a dummy client to the button that opens the door and let it pummel the button non stop. That way you can save 2/3 of the map.

It's sad to see that players with high pings have problems to open doors in time. Especally in Fastcaps mode 2. But again: It's the mappers fault.
In some runs it's required to slow down to not over jump a pad to get a shortcut right. None complains about that, too. Why? Because there is no way to get around that. With doors in FC it's the same. You have to slow down and then you have to accelerate back up to speed. That requires a lot of skill. You guys still know what skill is, right?

Think of acc maps like Acc_penguinz. Only one player can play at a time, due to the targets not respawning in time. It works there, too.
User avatar
<hk>
Menstruating 24/7
 
Posts: 1040
Joined: May 2nd, '09, 12:06 am
Location: Ingolstadt Germany

Re: Interference

Postby dS-kiddy » Oct 12th, '09, 10:34 pm

Let's say there is a cpm.1 map with slow doors and i play with someone on that map, he is 1 sec in front of me and opens the door for me and i make a server record that a player more skilled, for example zyax, can't break without having the door open like i had. That's not fairplay in my opinion. When you play defrag online there is a risk that someone else open a door for you, does that mean you have to press kill if you have a good run?
dS-kiddy
 
Posts: 84
Joined: May 3rd, '09, 8:34 pm

Re: Interference

Postby <hk> » Oct 12th, '09, 10:58 pm

I have to kill when someone steals my targets on acc maps too. I have a rather extreme position here, i know. How about playing one player at a time? It works perfectly on acc maps.
It's the mapper's fault!

If you all are against that rule. I will remove it but i think it's wrong.
User avatar
<hk>
Menstruating 24/7
 
Posts: 1040
Joined: May 2nd, '09, 12:06 am
Location: Ingolstadt Germany

Re: Interference

Postby ZyaX » Oct 12th, '09, 11:23 pm

Acc maps died a long time ago didn't they? Especially online.

<hk> wrote:In some runs it's required to slow down to not over jump a pad to get a shortcut right. None complains about that, too. Why? Because there is no way to get around that. With doors in FC it's the same. You have to slow down and then you have to accelerate back up to speed. That requires a lot of skill. You guys still know what skill is, right?


You are apparently wishing for something like offline gameplay connected to the online scoreboard aren't you? And then you want us to not communicate through q3, but rather skype or msn?
Don't you understand that this rule requires you to be alone on the server to not cheat.

You are stuck in the past, get with the times and understand this online defrag revolution.
User avatar
ZyaX
Voice of Reason
 
Posts: 117
Joined: May 2nd, '09, 11:02 pm

Re: Interference

Postby AL!EN » Oct 14th, '09, 4:32 pm

After some talk with ZyaX here it is some conclusion:

Code: Select all
AL|EN, 2009-10-14 14:52:12:
so what we will do with those dors

ZyaX, 14:54:35:
I wrote my opinion already, and I still stand by it.
that it is foolish to try to disallow something that can happen by chance, and does happen by chance quite often when you play in the same game as 4 other players

ZyaX, 14:55:16:
having other players, or additional clients of your own stand next to doors to keep them open is fine online.

ZyaX, 14:55:50:
and if they implement something in df to remove doors completely... hmm I don't know about that yet. but I doubt it will happen, there's no need for it

ZyaX, 14:56:27:
because df maps were designed to be harder with doors, but doors are annoying. that's why almost no df mapper uses doors

ZyaX, 14:56:34:
but ctf maps were not designed for fastcaps

AL|EN, 14:56:44:
ye !

ZyaX, 14:56:56:
that's why people have come up with the solution of "door keepers"

AL|EN, 14:57:00:
ctf maps are for frag gameplay

ZyaX, 14:57:07:
originally yes

AL|EN, 14:57:52:
mappers wasn't aware that there will be some AL|EN or ZyaX that will be running faster that doors open speed :-]


If quake3 engine have separated doors state for every player , such rules don't exist. But such thing is nonsense in q3 as frag game. That is why CTF maps have doors. I'm am 100% sure that if such engine feature can be done, there will be no problem wit doors.

No doubts here: having open doors by other players is not fair but...

Take look at Time resets and kill bugs: they are allowed online and not allowed offline. When we take look at defrag gameplay then slow doors are map problems. Almost noone use doors in df maps (and maps with doors can be still play in the proper way offline) In maps that are made for df that is a mapper decision and he must be aware that players will try to avoid mappers will like they do with many many other things. CTF maps was not designed for fastcaps. Some maps have them and some not. This is a map related stuff.

So in my opinion it should let be allowed online to use helpers because even if someone will break WR with such helper, such demo is useless. Even i can live with situation that someone via lucky get all doors open by other players and score really good time.
"strafe is the most important 'weapon' in defrag" - <hk>
User avatar
AL!EN
 
Posts: 282
Joined: May 2nd, '09, 8:26 am
Location: Poland

Re: Interference

Postby <hk> » Oct 23rd, '09, 8:09 pm

OK, it's not cheat to block doors in a CTF run. How about Blocking doors open to short entire level sections? Is that OK, too?
Should there be a rule to ban just that?
User avatar
<hk>
Menstruating 24/7
 
Posts: 1040
Joined: May 2nd, '09, 12:06 am
Location: Ingolstadt Germany

Re: Interference

Postby $$-albion » Oct 23rd, '09, 9:23 pm

<hk> wrote:OK, it's not cheat to block doors in a CTF run. How about Blocking doors open to short entire level sections? Is that OK, too?
Should there be a rule to ban just that?


You could do that, but than you'll have your hands full with deleting times where this has been used :p
User avatar
$$-albion
 
Posts: 291
Joined: May 6th, '09, 9:15 pm
Location: Bruges, Belgium

Re: OK: Interference

Postby <hk> » Oct 24th, '09, 2:48 am

This thread is not about punishment.
User avatar
<hk>
Menstruating 24/7
 
Posts: 1040
Joined: May 2nd, '09, 12:06 am
Location: Ingolstadt Germany

Re: Interference

Postby ZyaX » Oct 24th, '09, 11:37 am

<hk> wrote:OK, it's not cheat to block doors in a CTF run. How about Blocking doors open to short entire level sections? Is that OK, too?
Should there be a rule to ban just that?


I read it over and over, but I'm not sure I got it.

Are you talking about doors that you could not possibly have opened yourself since it only opens from one side(which you cannot get to)? Like on actf19?
User avatar
ZyaX
Voice of Reason
 
Posts: 117
Joined: May 2nd, '09, 11:02 pm

Next

cron