+left at fixed yawspeed

[Camping_Gaz_14K]

[...]com_maxfps[...]

com_maxfps is okay to change because of the reasons you know : I forced people to use either g_sync or pmove back then in 2001. Yeah, I did, and they were ranting like the noobs they were and still are.

[$$-albion]

This shit has gone this far, that even Gaz has entered the discussions, omg ppl(people)

[<hk>]

The community seems to be divided about this. What should we do? Some people will be pissed.

[$$-albion]

Don't think that many people would be pissed, so BAN THAT SHIT BRO'

[Arcaon]

Okay, let's list the pros and cons of +left/right.

Cons:
• It will give a huge, unfair advantage on maps like pornstar-gaand, lovet-second (see lame demo), pornstar-zzz; without requiring any skill other than being able to push down a button completely.
• It will be impossible to tell difference between +left/right and yawscript in serverdemos or spectator mode, and yawscripters could easily claim they've used +left/right.
• It's simply boring to use and even more boring to compete against if you're not willing to use automated turns.
• Allowing it would push Defrag a bit closer to being a script playground and further from being the hand precision mod it once was. While turning is one of the primary elements of Defrag, allowing +left/right turns would discourage people from improving their turning skills.

Pros:
• Uhh... it's a standard Q3 command, which means it's technically not a cheat?

[like@boss]

I see a lot of discussion about what is fair but no evidence of an effective system or means to enforce these rules (in terms of prevention and even punishment). I have witnessed plenty of "cheating" (even recently) that has gone unpunished. My question is: why bother trying to police this stuff? Who would want to volunteer for such a pointless crusade anyway. Their "crimes" have no real impact at all; a botted run has never taken food off my plate (although some of you have surely suffered some butthurt). You want something that isn't possible my friends, and for the foreseeable future your efforts will remain a waste of energy and resources. When you come to terms and accept the fact that much of human behavior can't be controlled, then you'll finally be at peace with a lot of things.

[khtti]

f1 for norules

[<hk>]

I just want guys like you who complain no matter what i do off my back. So make those rules and never complain again. It's in your power, now.
I don't care.

Enforcing rules is something totally different. That takes time i don't have. So scanning for cheaters is either automated or slow.

Since i found this neat rule text in the other thread i am tempted to just remove +left at fixed yawspeeds, too. Someone has to make a decision. That better be you guys.

[khtti]

Deciding the rules by vote is just retarded though, you have to see that.

All decisions must be logically justified and all rules must be consistently enforced for every player.
This obviously limits which things are even open to debate.

That this vote system exists is laughable, since the only possible result is a bunch of uninterested players reactively deciding that everything they didn't think of first is a cheat. You already knew this, of course, hence the call for a quick resolution by a vote rather than a formal discussion involving actual thought.

Your first goals should be to:
decide what constitutes an unfair advantage, and
determine which of those unfair advantages are feasible to prevent.

Most of the things people are suddenly bitching about fit the commonly accepted definition of fair, and I can only wonder as to why...

[ZyaX]

I'll be pissed if this doesn't get counted as cheating because of the philosophical bullshit written about rules and the defrag community in general.
For this thread, which was quite concise, the train of thought isn't that vast. We are trying to rule out any unfair advantages and make players have to use their own skills to play the game. When it comes to the details of this issue, all you have to do is to press down one button and close your eyes, instead of what normally is quite challenging(at high speeds especially). If this isn't so blatantly obvious, I don't know what is