General Discussion

[hykon.se]

Defrag has evolved once more and now it's the playground of scripters as much as I've seen lately. People are trying to find out who can bot better etc which has made the rankings obsolete, because you can never be sure if the times on the board are legit or not.

A lot of people say stuff like this, but it's really overexaggerated. There are no botted or completely scripted times in the database, and very few with yawscript after the deletion. ([2337]k's times are still left though ) There are only a few times with ~600 cj scripts, usually by medium level players, and probably a few with +left/+right too. There are a lot of times with "+moveup; +attack" and "+moveup; wait" though, but I wouldn't call Defrag a "playground of scripters" because of those.

[Vapour]

@Arcaon: That's just what I've seen lately, if you think the problem is not so big - fine. For me Defrag is (well, was) much more than the online DB.


@ZyaX, no matter what rules are enforced, a DB reset will or at least should happen anyway.

[ZyaX]

A lot of people say stuff like this, but it's really overexaggerated. There are no botted or completely scripted times in the database, and very few with yawscript after the deletion. ([2337]k's times are still left though ) There are only a few times with ~600 cj scripts, usually by medium level players, and probably a few with +left/+right too. There are a lot of times with "+moveup; +attack" and "+moveup; wait" though, but I wouldn't call Defrag a "playground of scripters" because of those.

Quoted for truth. I think people who are such doomsayers are probably trying to sound a wake up call for the rest of us, but exaggerate like that to not be ignored.

[AL!EN]

I agreed that things looks not so bad, but it is very good to have such discussion and steps now. Clear rules without no doubts and then no one should complain about deleted accounts. No more excuses You play fair, understood by the greatest meaning of the word or you don't play.

[ZyaX]

I can't believe I didn't think of this as a response to the people saying that there is no point to make these rules since it won't stop some players from doing it anyways. Shall we just stop making laws just because people are breaking them? xD

[AL!EN]

So lite summary:

NOT allowed,a an when rules say not it means NOT !, ofc there will be people who will brake rules but there will be no excuses when records will be deleted:

- multiple accounts for one person
- own binary modifications - we will never know what people will invent to cheat
- lagging
- scripts:
. . . . . . covers the infamous "+moveup; +attack" - you can't use it
. . . . . . referring to commands that execute any type of actual physical player behavior
. . . . . . scripts with indirectly things are also not allowed (cl_yawspeed don't change physical player
. . . . . . behavior itself, but combine with +left change it)

- yawspeed modification during runs
- +left/+right at fixed yawspeed - you can't use it, it's not allowed, it's cheat, no excuses

Take look at this: http://ex.us.to/pub/upload/demos/lovet-second%5Bmdf.cpm%5D00.22.384%28Doaiena.Bulgaria%29.dm_68 Pure cheating.

That proves pretty well why Defrag would be better if +left and +right aren't allowed. Another thing is that if keyboard turns with fixed yawspeeds are allowed, it will be almost impossible to see a difference between yawscript turns and keyboard turns in server demos. Turnscripters could easily claim that they've used simple keyboard turns.

Anything else that you will find is NOT ALLOWED

Allowed:
Pre compiled Quake binarys: DFEngine, cnq3, ioq3
Interference - maps related problem

Anything else ?

[Arcaon]

Sounds good to me.

[khtti]

Banning custom binaries wont solve anything, since client hooks aren't going to be pb detected

All you will accomplish through forcing a common executable is the ruination of all the private work done to improve the peripheral experience, things which do not alter the skill needed for doing runs.

Some of these rule ideas are ridiculous, this one especially

[AL!EN]

Banning custom binaries wont solve anything, since client hooks aren't going to be pb detected

"We cheat cos we can!" - netcoders.cc motto. How about: if rule forbids custom modification, i don't use it I know, to highs expectations from you. Go play with wall hacks and aimbots, because PB don't detect private cheats.

All you will accomplish through forcing a common executable is the ruination of all the private work done to improve the peripheral experience, things which do not alter the skill needed for doing runs.

Some of these rule ideas are ridiculous, this one especially

Defrag is for players, not coders. Again: do you think that we are stupid and don't know what things you can archive by using custom exe ? If you can't live and play without "my valuable addon that i insert into q3 source code" then you shouldn't play at all. And the fact that smart people can avoid PB detection doesn't change anything. Rules are rules

[khtti]

Rules are rules, and new rules of gameplay must be based on old rules of logic.
My point is, cheaters wont be affected by this rule, but legit players with improved clients will.

Somehow I think you're incapable of seeing the purpose in this
That, or you're a troll and are intentionally missing the point.