General Discussion

[<hk>]

I created one topic for each issue. This should speed up the rule finding process.


Here are the current rules.

1. No means which cause the player to have sudden packetloss (lagscript) are allowed. Especally if they enable the player to skip or delay trigger activation.
   
2. No means which automate movements or combine movements with weapon usage are allowed. (ex: ob-script, rocket-/plasmajump-scripts, mwheel-script, turnspeed-script, software to play back parts of previous runs).
   We consider binding more than one function to a key("+moveup; +attack") a script, too.
   
3. It is not allowed to interfere with other player's runs in a way that gives the player an advantage. (ex: blocking doors open, pushing buttons, blocking platforms)
   
4. Players have to adjust their netsettings to get the lowest packetloss possible.
   
5. Players are not allowed to give out their account data to other people. Setting times for other players is not allowed and will be punished as well.
   
6. Be polite, talk english preferably, respect others.

[<hk>]

A small list of "helpers"

• "+moveup; +attack".
• jump script to optimize the circlejump.
• "+left" at a fixed yaw speed
• Mouse wheeling stairs
• change the yaw speed during runs allowed?

There is also a kind of manipulation that involves modifying your quake3 binary by hand.

• That's Visual optimisation like removing fog (good on "ghost-colorz")
• Or engine manipulation like -128 or demo replay

Accounts:

• What about sharing accounts?
• What about multiple accounts for one person?

[khtti]

"+moveup; +attack". Is that cheat or not? -IMHO yes its cheating, but one could argue that it does not change the minimum achievable time on a map.
jump script to optimize the circlejump. Is that cheat or not? -Do you mean +moveup;wait 2;-moveup? Yes, its cheating. Using 'wait' to automate anything has always been forbidden. If you mean using chsinfo to send -moveup at certain z vels, that is cheating too, but the hard part is telling when its used. For example you could use a setting which does not appear any different from a controlled legit jumppress, but still get an 'advantage' compared to what you can achieve without.
What about "+strafe" at a fixed yaw speed? -What does this do? Fixed ZWOB speed?
Should it be forbidden to change the yaw speed during runs? -Manually changing yawspeed is fine, and one could imagine ways to easily change to the correct yawspeed which do not fall foul of any current rules (one cmd per key etc), so some clarification is definitely needed on which commands are forbidden.
What about sharing accounts? -Why have accounts at all if they are not limited to one person?
What about multiple accounts for one person? -As long as no single player occupies more than one rank per map, np. Also, there could be some benefit in login1/login2 for different rulesets.
There is also a call of manipulation that involves modifying your quake3 binary by hand.
That's Visual optimisation like removing fog (good on "ghost-colorz") -How is this enforceable?
Or engine manipulation like -128 or demo replay -Surely these things are unsuitable for the legitimate rankings, although I don't know how you plan to enforce the second example...


In addition to these there are things which automate actions, but do not have an effect on the time set.
For example, on bardok-statik I used a bind to center my yaw to ensure that the TR zwob did not result in any sidespeed.
This bind did not help me achieve a time that otherwise would be impossible, but it did prevent wasted tries, thus saving playtime.
Was it a cheat?

[<hk>]

-How is this enforceable?

That's not important here. We are talking about what is legal here. There may be ways to detect this in the future.

What about mwheeling stairs?

You guys should also keep in mind that we are not talking about punishments here. What action will result in which consequences will be handled in a different thread.

[khtti]

Mwheeling stairs is fine as long as "wait" is not used.

[<hk>]

Mwheeling stairs is fine as long as "wait" is not used.

Why that exception? What's the difference?

[dS-kiddy]

I'm not a strafer so i don't really care about this, but +left +right is a default q3 command so i
don't think that's a cheat. The cheat in my opinion is to have the yawspeed autochanged.
But if you play with the same yawspeed always i dont see why that should be called cheat.


peace

[$$-albion]

You want real rules?
Try this one: Use a default cfg like I do!

List of things I've changed:
-> Standard net settings, such as: rate, snaps, maxpackets and maxfps
-> Sensitivity
-> RL bind (I <3 rl), Smiley bind ^^ and /kill bind
That's what I call a pretty default cfg... Laziness FTW! Atleast I appreciate the effort the ppl(people) of ID Software have put into making this cfg... xD :p

And khetti, why would you let ppl(people) bind different values of yawspeed? It's still a way of "cheating" in my eyes.

Let the discussion begin!

EDIT: oh and with rl bind, I mean it switches to rl :p

[hykon.se]

Allowed
Mouse wheel jumping: Mwheeling is needed to be able to compete on many maps. Although if all mwheeled times were magically deleted, I would definitely not support the use of mwheel.

Fog removal: Only a few Defrag maps have fog that actually makes it harder to set good times. In my opinion, there should be a built-in command that removes fog, so that everyone can have the same conditions on those maps.

Multiple accounts for one person: It's okay I guess unless he has more than one time on the same map.

Banned
Keyboard turns: Even +left/+right turns at fixed yaw speeds can give a huge advantage on maps with a big, high-speed turn (pornstar-gaand, lovet-second, pornstar-zzz for example).

Engine manipulation (i.e. -128/demo replay): Doesn't really need an evaluation, obvious haXx!11one!.

Sharing accounts: The whole point of having accounts is that they're personal. I have some understanding if for example a weapon player accidentally logs a time on a strafe map or vice versa, but he'll have to do the best that he can and/or accept his time, not give their password out to some better player. (I had to play a few hours to improve my mistakenly logged time on the huge all weapon map pht-bigrun from like rank 10/11 to 3/11 )

[ZyaX]

3. It is not allowed to interfere with other player's runs in a way that gives the player an advantage. (ex: blocking doors open, pushing buttons, blocking platforms)

This should be allowed to do on the servers. Since it is something that sometimes happens by fluke.

To illustrate how stupid it is to disallow this, it's like to say that random obs off slopes are not allowed and low-jumps on ramps in cpm are not allowed. Let's say that there's a drop on a map where you fall down, and sometimes you manage to get an ob at the bottom. But then you discover an obvious way how to get it every time that you were so blind that you simply didn't notice it before.
It is the same thing with holding the doors open with an idle client of your own. It works every time and it's so obvious! :>