General Discussion

[$$-albion]

Zyax... obviously you cheat you know way too much about it :O xD

Your illustration is full of cheat, I mean low jump??? Is that like crouching and jumping? And wtf is an OB? Oriental Breasts?

And yeah I agree, door rule thing must go

[hykon.se]

About the interference rule, albion said it best.

1. Wait till you hear someone jump at start
2. Wait till you see him
3. Start your run
4. Bypass the rule
5. ???
6. PROFIT!!!

It's a fool-proof method you know only thing hk can do now is make sure only one person can start at a time... OH SHI--

Yeah, I had to quote this again.

[ZyaX]

Zyax... obviously you cheat you know way too much about it :O xD

I wish D; hehe


I disagree with the legitimacy +right/+left binds completely(aka. turnscript, yawstrafing etc.), whatever your cl_yawspeed might be this or the next millisecond. Using the +left or +right binds depending on which way you're going while holding the respective +moveleft or +moveright bound key, while jumping, just makes it so much easier to make a good turn(in this case flawless). This can't be accepted at all, it is the first step towards bot vs. bot frame wars.
The true skill in this competition lies in how good you are to manually be able to do this kind of turn, among other things of course.

Stating things like that it is fine because it's a basic q3 command doesn't really make sense here. It is like pleading innocent on the charges of murder because death is a natural thing in life. We just simply don't think it is fair for competition. Don't we?

[$$-albion]

Stating things like that it is fine because it's a basic q3 command doesn't really make sense here. It is like pleading innocent on the charges of murder because death is a natural thing in life. We just simply don't think it is fair for competition. Don't we?

Word YO.

[KOHOS]

I'm really surprised that people are still discussing, while there is nothing to discuss.
In this case I'm not going to blame the admins, who react rather than act.

People fucked this game in all possible holes with available scripts and start discussions on which scripts are more legit and which are not.
How pathetic this actually is, can be probably judged by non-insiders only.
In the end all you've got is some guy connecting on the server and using a simple script, then someone else connects using some better stuff, being a cheater at the same time.
Until everyone got the better script. Then it's legit again, until someone comes up with better stuff. It's really some kind of a wonderful defrag evolution.

I really don't want to come with the "in the old times everything was better" shit, but I really remember people playing a map all night long to complete a complicated shortcut without even thinking of automated help. Either defrag is a skill based game or not.
I also remember times when cheats made at least a bit sense, once people tried to impress other players with their skills.
Now even funnier is the fact, that people are blaming players who obviously "seem" to cheat, because once they were better without and now they are still better with.
Probably it has something to do with the amount of time people spend with the game. (No matter what they do; playing by hand or scripting their ass off.)

Talking about all this is as faggy as the people who complain about politics, human rights and society.
"Oh John! Have you heard that Ferarri is going to make their cars 2% more expensive?!"
'What the heck! This is fucking unbelievable! I'm going to write on my blog about this! I mean, we informed and progressive society have out rights!"
(Not like John is ever going to afford a car like this, but meh, he still feels like he has his rights.)

Defrag has become anarchy years ago, so live with it or quit.

I once tried to explain someone that pressing a button as fast as a mousewheel script does, is not possible, but I failed. Maybe we should discuss the obvious once again, just for the heck of it.

[remis]

Allowed
Mouse wheel jumping: Mwheeling is needed to be able to compete on many maps. Although if all mwheeled times were magically deleted, I would definitely not support the use of mwheel.

Fog removal: Only a few Defrag maps have fog that actually makes it harder to set good times. In my opinion, there should be a built-in command that removes fog, so that everyone can have the same conditions on those maps.

Multiple accounts for one person: It's okay I guess unless he has more than one time on the same map.

Banned
Keyboard turns: Even +left/+right turns at fixed yaw speeds can give a huge advantage on maps with a big, high-speed turn (pornstar-gaand, lovet-second, pornstar-zzz for example).

Engine manipulation (i.e. -128/demo replay): Doesn't really need an evaluation, obvious haXx!11one!.

Sharing accounts: The whole point of having accounts is that they're personal. I have some understanding if for example a weapon player accidentally logs a time on a strafe map or vice versa, but he'll have to do the best that he can and/or accept his time, not give their password out to some better player. (I had to play a few hours to improve my mistakenly logged time on the huge all weapon map pht-bigrun from like rank 10/11 to 3/11 )

tell me one map where you need wheel to reach the finish :O

[hykon.se]

I said compete, not finish...

[Vapour]

Thought I'd write something down on this subject:

Instead of banning mwheel, it would be better to maybe fix the way stairs are handled by the engine. It's been done in QuakeLive and it feels a lot better. I'm not quite sure how much work it would be but I guess cgg can manage (not sure if everyone would like to use dfengine tho) As it is now, I think using mwheel is a cheat in a way, but it's been done for so long that it would be pointless to fight against it now, when the community is the size of a peanut.

I haven't really played maps where fog was a serious problem .Q3 has always been impressive thanks to the way you can tweak your visuals (and other things) so I do not see any harm with it.

Multiple accounts for one person shouldn't be allowed. Otherwise, what's the point of them, as has been pointed out before...

Can't really say much about CPM but people have been abusing yaw turns for years. It's again something that is not right, but fighting against it is useless.

And now it's time for my favorite script, the infamous RJ bind. I don't like that one at all. But again, it's been allowed in comps for years (not all of them but still) and fighting against it is like pissing into the wind. The reason why I don't like it is not because it gives you the advantage of height but the fact that on maps which require the maximum height (RJ or phop) are a lot easier for people using it. While others fail those parts over and over, the scripters do them with ease and can concentrate on the other parts of the map thus getting a better time. Not quite sure how you can prevent the usage tho...

Last but not least, KOHOS, in his infinite wisdom said it all <3. Defrag has evolved once more and now it's the playground of scripters as much as I've seen lately. People are trying to find out who can bot better etc which has made the rankings obsolete, because you can never be sure if the times on the board are legit or not.

Props go out to Shio, who I had the pleasure of fighting against in the 'old' days and who keeps pushing the limits even further today.

Vap, over and out.

[dS-kiddy]

(not sure if everyone would like to use dfengine tho)

I would love to use dfengine but i can't because (what i think the problem is) I use cl_mouseAccel.. I tried dfengine several times and my sens keep getting fucked up :<
It's like i go from sens 3 to sens 50. It's so much faster in dfengine..
I asked for help many times to people on servers and also to cgg @ mirc, no answers :<

[ZyaX]

I don't think modifications to the game physics is the solution. The reason why people play it is because it is the way it is. And once again, if you remake how the game handles stairs, there are so many times that have to be deleted on the scoreboard.