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Ways to punish

This stays here as long as it takes to work out the new server rules

Re: Ways to punish

Postby AL!EN » Jun 16th, '10, 1:10 pm

BananaPhone wrote:@*censored*:
It's funny how you persistently try to be the very active defragpolice or sth...especially due to the fact that you have only THREE logged times over the past 2 years paranoid idiot. How can not logged cheating bother you at all when you're not even on the servers? Interesting...

@*censored* ? Hahha you are 11 years old or what ? Paranoid idiot ? That is funny. You cheats was proven at online servers (0ups scripts, lagging, +left and god know what else you use before server demos! In fact i know that you use all dirty hacks because they can't be detected without serverdemos!) and in my home by CGaz (dfwc04 demo cheated to the bones but he will never accuse you officially because of friendship) so what you trying to say now ? I suggest you to don't bother about why i care about not logged cheaters because you are lack of experience from different games about this, to understand it.
BananaPhone wrote:PS:Like it or not, but there are several people that pwn you at cpm.1 by now.

You are really pathetic now. I'm not "mister EGO" like you and won't use lame helpers and cheats to be "da number uno" etc I still can't do red lane and i don't have any problem with that.

BananaPhone wrote:@albion:
I don't see anything wrong with doing as you please while not logged in. Receiving a ban when someone does something harmless like checking the max rj height with a script? I also don't remember anyone complaining when they got to see setupji doing some unlogged bot runs 1 year ago. iirc gaz got 10+ specwhores when raping the botter's, who was pornstar by the way, times and no one whined, they were happy to see it instead tbh =)

Forcing login will result in massive amounts of multiple accounts, which they are nowhere close to dealing with it. Considering they already didn't do anything (due to laziness) when I reported most of the multiple accounts spotted by mself in 2007. Detecting multiple accounts and doing single permanent bans isn't possible (for them). It's easy to circumvent them and have several accounts undetected. They could do permanent bans over an entire IP range which most likely does affect all other people in the same area/city.


They can do it offline, but again you won't understand why they should so I won't bother to explain it to you.

BananaPhone wrote:PS:
Why bother at all? The entire cheat validation is useless anyways with some noob like hk in charge who doesn't even know physics, yet acts like he knows them in and out due to coding them himself. Nightmare moved on to other things in his life (m00m1n 4.0 if you like), the only reason why hk is still here is because he desperately needs admin rights to feel good. It's doubtful that you'll get rid of him quickly, unfortunately...let's just hope he never gets in charge of the defrag source code, lol.

No one exept you think that. Besides, you insult mDd staff = instant ban :mrgreen: :lol: :twisted:
"strafe is the most important 'weapon' in defrag" - <hk>
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Re: Ways to punish

Postby Anyone_Under_This_Rank_Is_n00b » Jun 16th, '10, 1:45 pm

eS-AL|EN wrote:
BananaPhone wrote:@*censored*:
It's funny how you persistently try to be the very active defragpolice or sth...especially due to the fact that you have only THREE logged times over the past 2 years paranoid idiot. How can not logged cheating bother you at all when you're not even on the servers? Interesting...

@*censored* ? Hahha you are 11 years old or what ? Paranoid idiot ? That is funny. You cheats was proven at online servers (0ups scripts, lagging, +left) and in my home by CGaz (dfwc04 demo cheated to the bones but he will never accuse you officially because of friendship) so what you trying to say now ? I suggest you to don't bother about why i care about not logged cheaters because you are lack of experience from different games about this, to understand it.
Your incredible paranoia is not the subject of discussion. Besides...nothing except lagging - for which I got deleted - was proven. Adding some dubious rule to call a standard quake3 cmd a cheat doesn't make one a cheater.

eS-AL|EN wrote:
BananaPhone wrote:PS:Like it or not, but there are several people that pwn you at cpm.1 by now.

You are really pathetic now. I'm not "mister EGO" like you and won't use lame helpers and cheats to be "da number uno" etc I still can't do red lane and i don't have any problem with that.
You'd even accuse anyone for not using the exact config as you do :lol:

eS-AL|EN wrote:
BananaPhone wrote:@albion:
I don't see anything wrong with doing as you please while not logged in. Receiving a ban when someone does something harmless like checking the max rj height with a script? I also don't remember anyone complaining when they got to see setupji doing some unlogged bot runs 1 year ago. iirc gaz got 10+ specwhores when raping the botter's, who was pornstar by the way, times and no one whined, they were happy to see it instead tbh =)

Forcing login will result in massive amounts of multiple accounts, which they are nowhere close to dealing with it. Considering they already didn't do anything (due to laziness) when I reported most of the multiple accounts spotted by mself in 2007. Detecting multiple accounts and doing single permanent bans isn't possible (for them). It's easy to circumvent them and have several accounts undetected. They could do permanent bans over an entire IP range which most likely does affect all other people in the same area/city.

They can do it offline, but again you won't understand why they should so I won't bother to explain it to you.
Don't bother explaining what you can't.

The login system was brought for reasons:
- Only log times you want to be logged
- No more setting crap times for other players
- Less aliases/multiple entries

eS-AL|EN wrote:
BananaPhone wrote:PS:
Why bother at all? The entire cheat validation is useless anyways with some noob like hk in charge who doesn't even know physics, yet acts like he knows them in and out due to coding them himself. Nightmare moved on to other things in his life (m00m1n 4.0 if you like), the only reason why hk is still here is because he desperately needs admin rights to feel good. It's doubtful that you'll get rid of him quickly, unfortunately...let's just hope he never gets in charge of the defrag source code, lol.

No one exept you think that. Besides, you insult mDd staff = instant ban :mrgreen: :lol: :twisted:
Plenty people besides me think that. Pointing out facts doesn't equal insulting.
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Re: Ways to punish

Postby AL!EN » Jun 16th, '10, 1:48 pm

BananaPhone wrote:Your incredible paranoia is not the subject of discussion. Besides...nothing except lagging - for which I got deleted - was proven. Adding some dubious rule to call a standard quake3 cmd a cheat doesn't make one a cheater

My only paranoia is that when i read rules and i see "don't use +left" i follow them and i cal a cheater everyone who use +left. Rules are rules, you ban those rules(and all of what i know) = you are cheater. Case closed.

BananaPhone wrote:Don't bother explaining what you can't.

You can tell you mother what he can do and what he can't :lol:

BananaPhone wrote:
eS-AL|EN wrote:
BananaPhone wrote:PS:Like it or not, but there are several people that pwn you at cpm.1 by now.

You are really pathetic now. I'm not "mister EGO" like you and won't use lame helpers and cheats to be "da number uno" etc I still can't do red lane and i don't have any problem with that.
You'd even accuse anyone for not using the exact config as you do :lol:

Whatever you say mister ego. Dream more about what i will do :whistle:
"strafe is the most important 'weapon' in defrag" - <hk>
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Re: Ways to punish

Postby Anyone_Under_This_Rank_Is_n00b » Jun 16th, '10, 2:00 pm

Link me one single demo where I used +left after the ruleset "+left forbidden" has been introduced, otherwise stfu.

Why not enlighten everyone here with those so called big solid proofs gaz "gave" you but not everyone else. Before you don't understand what he told you, don't bother answering.
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Re: Ways to punish

Postby AL!EN » Jun 16th, '10, 2:05 pm

Whatever you say mister ego. :whistle: +left was always a cheat, demo is included in news. And you don't have explain what CGaz say to me, he do this by himself. I won't bother to reply you again, you posts from this topic should end up in the trash because of flame war.
"strafe is the most important 'weapon' in defrag" - <hk>
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Re: Ways to punish

Postby bd.Doaiena » Jun 16th, '10, 9:15 pm

You never cease to amaze me Alien. You always state how you don't care about defrag, cheaters, times, etc., yet you are always the most active forum member in every imaginable topic. I don't know why you think of yourself as an admin (making new rules, accusing players, etc.). Maybe you want to show yourself as the most impartial and principle member of the defrag community, hoping that some day hk will make you an admin/referee. Then you might really feel important.

Don't worry. You'll never be that important. =)

Btw. Try to fix your english a bit. Use an online dictionary or something. It won't take you that long to straighten out your posts.

And another thing. Stop it with that "DFWC04 demo" spam. I've read that about 4-5 times in different topics. We all got it. You know that wesp's demo is cheated. We are all happy for you. Now get over it and try to spend some time away from your pc.
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Re: Ways to punish

Postby 742617000027 » Jun 17th, '10, 9:50 am

Don't be too harsh with Alien. It's always good to have a mix of differently minded people in a community since otherwise - when everyone either shares the general opinion or simply doesn't care - bad habits could easily find their way into daily practice. So Alien, keep on patroling and complaining and the others keep on being annoyed by it. That way at least the part of the community that is somehow responsible for decision making won't get lazy, dull or whatever you'd like to call it. Dissents ftw!
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Re: Ways to punish

Postby AL!EN » Jun 17th, '10, 10:42 am

I just want to point that i never accuse anyone except w3sp as far i remember (oblivious Russian timescalers don't count) and pointing that i want to feel important and to be important to mDd stuff is really lame. I alway have strong hate for any kind of fraud.

I can agreed that my English grammar is week and i mention about dfwc04 demo to many times.
"strafe is the most important 'weapon' in defrag" - <hk>
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Re: Ways to punish

Postby Phoenix » Jun 17th, '10, 12:36 pm

Incoming wall of text.

eS-AL|EN wrote:Whatever you say mister ego. :whistle: +left was always a cheat, demo is included in news. And you don't have explain what CGaz say to me, he do this by himself. I won't bother to reply you again, you posts from this topic should end up in the trash because of flame war.


Of course flame wars start when w3sp posts. You start them.

As for this "+left was always a cheat" and "rocket jump scripts were always a cheat" and so on and so forth. This simply isn't true. Though it's hard to prove because I'm convinced that most of you have rocks for brains.

An excerpt from the closing statement by Nihilanth in Live II Fly:

Nihilanth wrote:... with no deviation from the default timescale value (1.0) and no macros other than the "industry standard" rocket jump bind:

/+moveup; +attack

This is the essence of pure freestyle tricking. It is the result of tens of thousands of attempts, countless hours-long sessions, and over four years of experience in the field.


Rocket jump scripts used to be commonly accepted. FS and otherwise. When mousewheeling stairs was discovered everybody was doing it. It was frowned upon by some but it was not against any rules currently set in place. I'm not against the new rules just don't act like they always existed.

As for what's happening now ...

This punishment system is okay is you assume that only elitist players play defrag for the sole purpose of being the absolute fastest. What you fail to recognize is that not all players are experts with the q3 engine. Not only that but some people don't take q3 so seriously. It's just a game. People just want to play a game and have fun. Do you really think they'll spend the time to come read the rules?

But then the dilemna comes in when you try to treat these new players more leniently than veteran players who do know better. Here's what I would suggest as a solution:

1) In the activation email for new accounts include a link to the rules and make sure you indicate in BIG BOLD LETTERS that it is their responsibility to review and respect them or their account may be deleted/banned.

2) I saw that you wanted the rules to be very vague and general to cover all topics hk, but they are so vague that a new player may not understand all of them. For example:

"It is not allowed to change your view angles(direction the player is facing) with other means than moving the mouse."

Most veteran players understand this to mean don't use +left/+right or +lookup or anything of this type. A new player however may not get that and maybe he stumbles across the wrong website or talks to the wrong player who shows him how to use one of these things and then he ends up banned for 3 months not knowing why. I suggest simply keeping your vague descriptions that cover everything but include a few specific examples. Again I've seen you say you don't want to show people how to cheat but honestly I don't see the harm in adding a few things that specifically aren't allowed that everyone talks about anyways. And if someone is stupid enough to cheat with something you say there I doubt it would be hard to catch.

3) This previous should cover veteran and new players who are just registering a new account. To cover veteran players who already have an account but maybe take a break I suggest you have an automated email sent to any account that does not set any times on the servers for 1 month (30 days). This email would simply state that upon their return to be sure to check the rules saying that they may have changed during their absence and that not reviewing them could risk the deletion of their account. And again include a link.

As for punishment...

Within the first 30 days of a new account:

1st offense = Deletion of all times, a new email stating why they were deleted and a new link to the rules.
2nd offense = Deletion of all times, a new email stating why they were deleted and a new link to the rules, 1 month ban.
3rd offense = Deletion of account, Permanent ban.

After 30 days:

1st offense = deletion of all times, 2 month ban, a new email stating why they were deleted and a new link to the rules.
2nd offense = deletion of account, permanent ban.


And of course the last loop-hole ... veteran players creating new accounts to abuse the 30 day grace period ... well that would fall under multiple accounts which is already illegal and should result in an instant permanent ban.

I think a system like this would be more fair. Sure veteran players all know but again you need to remember that even some veterans aren't familiar with most aspects of the quake engine. And what about say a veteran fragger who's just getting into defrag now and starts using a rocket jump bind that he uses in his frag config. I don't think it's really fair to just instantly ban a player for 3 months who really didn't know any better and would, in good conscience, refrain from using said cheats had they known.

Sorry for the randomness of some points ... slightly intoxicated and too lazy to fix it to be more coherent.
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Re: Ways to punish

Postby Arcaon » Jun 17th, '10, 1:21 pm

I've heard that Phoenix dude is pretty clever.
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